FOR-PD Chat Transcript

Date: November 8, 2007

Time: 7:00-8:00PM EST

Topic: Building Literacy Through Classroom Discussion

Guests: Mary Adler and Eija Rougle

Our guests for the November 2007 content chat were Mary Adler and Eija Rougle, authors of Building Literacy Through Classroom Discussion: Research-Based Strategies for Developing Critical Readers and Thoughtful Writers in Middle School. Our guests shared thoughts and ideas on how to develop discussion in the classroom while encouraging and building literacy skills. Read a review of their book at http://edrev.asu.edu/brief/june06.html#1.

Additional Resources:

FOR-PD Project >> Hello everyone. Welcome to tonight's Content Chat.

FOR-PD Project >> At tonight's chat, you will have the opportunity to ask questions and receive answers about the content used in the course.

FOR-PD Project >> The chat will be an hour long and conclude at 8:00PM.

FOR-PD Project >> I would like to introduce members of the FORPD staff that are present in tonight's chat.

FOR-PD Project >> Lourdes Smith is our Reading Specialist.

FOR-PD Project >> Mary Adler and Eija Rougle will be our featured speakers tonight.

FOR-PD Project >> I would like to go over the chat protocol for tonight's chat. Please make sure you follow the protocol as this makes the chat flow more smoothly.

FOR-PD Project >> The Exclamation Point - !

FOR-PD Project >> An exclamation point is like raising your hand. Type this symbol whenever you have a question or a comment related to what is being discussed.

FOR-PD Project >> The Pound Sign - #

FOR-PD Project >> A pound sign indicates that you are finished typing your question or comment. Use this symbol when you are finished with your thought to indicate that you are finished typing.

FOR-PD Project >> The Ellipse - . . .

FOR-PD Project >> Use the Ellipse when you have a great deal to type so you do not keep participants waiting to read your entire thought. By breaking your comment up, you let participants know you are actively doing something rather than just typing a long response or question.

FOR-PD Project >> To type in the chat window you must type in the white box below ENTER YOUR MESSAGE HERE and then hit the enter button. What you have typed will show up in the chat window.

FOR-PD Project >> If there aren't any questions about the chat protocol - I will turn the chat over to Lourdes.

Lourdes>> thank you for all coming tonight

Lourdes>> I am extremely excited to have both Dr. Adler and Dr. Rougle here tonight...

Lourdes>> As was posted in the FOR-PD newsletter, they are authors of a fabulous book entitled,...

Lourdes>> Building Literacy Through Classroom Discussion...

Lourdes>> I've read it and found it quite useful and full of strategies and tips...

Lourdes>> As a teacher myself, I found creating discussion in the classroom as somewhat of an issue, especially during those first few months of school...

Lourdes>> For our chat tonight, I'll begin with some questions for Dr. Adler and Dr. Rougle....

Lourdes>> Then, I'll open the chat to your questions...

Lourdes>> Dr. Adler and Dr. Rougle, it's wonderful to have you here...

Lourdes>> Could you share some information about your background?#

Mary>> First, thank you for having us both here tonight...

Mary>> Eija is online viewing and on the phone with me from NY (I'm in CA)...

Mary>> So I'll be typing for both of us (so we don't talk over one another)...

Mary>> Our book comes out of a school-university collaboration called The Partnership for Literacy...

Mary>> A 2 year intervention study with middle school teachers...

Mary>> Over 70 teachers participated; Eija and I worked personally with at least 40...

Mary>> their voices are in this book, as are the voices of their students...

Mary>> Eija continues with the Partnership across disciplines; Mary works at CSU Channel Islands...

Mary>> doing research on classroom discourse and writing...

Mary>> Eija's a lead facilitator with the Center on English Language and Achievement in Albany, NY#

Lourdes>> You both bring much to the table with regard to literacy and literacy instruction...

Lourdes>> Your book and your research is quite important. Creating quality discussion in the classroom can take some work for both teacher and students...

Lourdes>> What are some qualities of a good discussion in any given classroom?#

Mary>> First, a good classroom discussion is interesting, relevant, meaningful, and substantive...

Mary>> That's a mouthful, but it means that students are really engaged, minds-on, on a deep level...

Mary>> They are exploring ideas and opening up their thinking...

Mary>> In the Partnership, we used Martin Nystrand's definition of a good discussion...

Mary>> Which is, A free-flowing conversation between at least 3 or more students and the teacher...

Mary>> Lasting at least 30 sections...

Mary>> Oops, that should say seconds :-)...

Mary>> This is opposed to a question and answer session, which is usually teacher-student-teacher-student...

Mary>> The teacher's role in this discussion is important...

Mary>> The teacher is facilitating student thinking about the content...

Mary>> in contrast to the teacher initiating a question and then evaluating the correct answer#

Lourdes>> In your book, Building Literacy Through Classroom Discussion, you write about "dialogic" discussion. What does this mean and why is it important?

Mary>> Dialogism is a concept developed by Bakhtin, a literary theorist, to explain interactions among characters...

Lourdes>> #

Bernadette>> Hi sorry I am late.

Eija>> Mary's link went off, she has to get back.

Lourdes>> oh, that’s okay...thank you for letting us know

Lourdes>> we'll give Dr. Adler a few moments to log back in...

Lourdes>> ahhh...there she is...

Mary>> Sorry about that!...

Lourdes>> no problem

Mary>> So, back to dialogic...

Mary>> It is meant to describe an interactive and responsive kind of discourse...

Mary>> Which incorporates multiple voices...

Mary>> to develop deeper understandings of ideas, even of "truth," as Bakhtin says...

Mary>> "The truth is born in the collective, dialogic intercourse of people"...

Mary>> In terms of classroom interactions, dialogic means a more efficient way...

Mary>> of generating meaning because it involves all students, even those listening...

Mary>> students are active partners in meaning-making.#

Lourdes>> You noted the use of using anticipation guides and other strategies to help students begin a quality discussion...

Mary>> !

Lourdes>> What are some ways to sustain a quality discussion?

Mary>> Great question. Before we go there, we should go back to one important point...

Lourdes>> Dr. Adler, you're welcome to "speak" anytime.

Mary>> Dialogic interactions are linked to student achievement in several large scale studies...

Mary>> So it's more than a great philosophy, it's an important approach...

Lourdes>> that's a very important point...

Mary>> So now onto ways to sustain a quality discussion...

Mary>> We suggest in the book that teachers use a guide in their preparation...

Mary>> The guide (we call it an envisionment-building guide) is a place where...

Mary>> teachers can anticipate questions on a text and think of it from the different...

Mary>> stances that advanced readers take as they read...

Mary>> Using these questions can help teachers ensure that students' minds go...

Mary>> deeper into the text, provide evidence, and build on prior ideas...

Mary>> So teachers can prepare for a good discussion by generating questions...

Mary>> open-ended, authentic questions, in advance...

Mary>> Even questions that they themselves are wondering about a text...

Mary>> And students have wonderful questions, too...

Mary>> Also, teachers can use writing before, during, or after conversations...

Mary>> After a conversation, a teacher can ask, "What was powerful in today's...

Mary>> conversation? Who or what stimulated your thinking?"

Mary>> This then becomes a great take-off point for an essay...

Mary>> or for the next conversation...

Mary>> During the conversation, writing during the conversation--through t-charts...

Mary>> quickwrites, journal jots, etc., can help individual’s process information...

Mary>> before they bring it back to the whole class...

Mary>> Finally, the teacher can ask for evidence at any time, connect ideas, ...

Mary>> and use students' own words to frame the next question (this is called uptake)...

Mary>> these practices are associated with higher achievement...

Mary>> #

Lourdes>> You make some excellent points here, Dr. Adler. The activities you wrote about add so much to not only discussion development, but also the overall development of literacy...

Lourdes>> At this time, I'd like to open up the chat to anyone that has a question...remember to use the ! and wait to be called on to ask your question...

Lourdes>> Does anyone have a question/comment?#

Carol>> !

Tirsis>> Yes I do

Lourdes>> Carol, go ahead...

Regina>> !

Carol>> In listening to your suggestions...

Tirsis>> !

Lourdes>> Tirsis, you'll be next...

Krista>> !

Mary>> !

Deborah>> !

Lourdes>> looks like Carol may have accidentally logged off...

Lourdes>> Tirsis, your turn...

Tirsis>> Yes thank you, I would like to know what research says about discourse and the connection to writing#

Mary>> In our research, we found that talk functions as a rehearsal for writing...

Mary>> So the conversation in the classroom helps students to flesh out their...

Mary>> tentative ideas and consider alternative viewpoints that their peers bring up...

Mary>> This helps them to have more developed ideas to write about...

Mary>> But of course the teacher must call back to the conversation so that students...

Mary>> realize its importance for the teacher, too, that this is taken seriously in this classroom...

Mary>> Speaking forces one to articulate and shape ideas, just as writing does...

Mary>> it's like composing--an excellent pre-writing strategy.#

Lourdes>> Tirsis, does that help answer your question?

Anne>> Hello all! I apologize for joining the group late tonight.

Lourdes>> Since Carol just logged back in, it will be her turn to question. Krista, you'll be next.

Carol>> Thanks!

Carol>> I got knocked off

Carol>> I was reminded of my time at UWF when I went through strategy classes...

Tirsis>> Thank you, I feel that we need to focus more of our instruction o discourse and letting students shape their ideas by way of oral activities guided
by the teacher thank you#

Carol>> and we had to write out questions in advance.....of a lesson...

Carol>> do you recommend doing so?#

Mary>> Yes, we recommend writing out questions that focus on different stances...

Mary>> that the reader will take with the text...

Carol>> I'm glad because I think it really helped me#

Mary>> But these questions are only a guideline...

Mary>> And student questions are extremely important to cultivate instead...

Mary>> or in addition, to your questions...

Mary>> Partnership teachers taught students how to mark up a text...

Carol>> I have been saddened that the pace of classroom instruction..

Mary>> And to jot down questions that they had...

Mary>> Yes, quick pacing makes dialogue difficult!#

Carol>> has prevented teachers from really thinking through lessons in advance

Carol>> #

Lourdes>> Krista, your turn...

Krista>> I really liked all of your suggestions and wanted to mention where I find questions related to text: in the teacher textbook, there are always suggested questions, also I like to "Google" difficulties with the concept that I am teaching- so that I can be prepared to discuss those
and really flesh out the students thinking. I appreciate all of your suggestions! I do have one question: what about the timid student- who is deathly afraid of being wrong or being perceived as asking a silly question? How do I draw them into the conversation or discussion?#

Arlene>> !

Mary>> We found that the think-pair-share strategy helps with shy students...

Mary>> so they can

Mary>> Try out their ideas with a partner first...

Mary>> plus, a special question that we call the "wonder question"—

Mary>> What are you wondering about?...

Mary>> Everyone has something to say about that, usually...

Mary>> teachers can also put the questions in a hat and have them pulled...

Mary>> at random, so that the shy students' questions are read out loud, too...

Mary>> Finally, you can do a written conversation...

Mary>> where students pass a note back and forth, writing a response to a question...

Mary>> of course, the questions need to be open-ended enough to support...

Mary>> multiple interpretations as long as they can be supported.#

Krista>> great suggestions, thank you#

Lourdes>> Regina, I think you were next....

Regina>> Is dialogism and its connection to writing successful with struggling readers as with advance students? Would you suggest using the same activities for the struggling readers or modifying activities?

Mary>> We find that struggling readers need dialogic interactions more than advanced students...

Mary>> But also need careful preparation by the teacher...

Mary>> A good, rich, approachable text that is accessible and interesting...

Mary>> instruction in reading and marking up the text...

Mary>> or using sticky notes...

Mary>> and more guided instruction at first, with the teacher building on student ideas...

Mary>> carefully to help them connect thinking...

Mary>> the preliminary research on the Partnership data shows the most gains...

Mary>> in the urban schools where students may have more to content with academically...

Mary>> so it does help struggling readers, but they need assistance and scaffolding to get there.#

Lourdes>> Mary Leonard, you're next and then Deborah Beck...

Mary>> My question was the same as Regina's. I am happy to find out that with careful preparation, these practices can be applied with our struggling readers. #

Regina>> Thank you Dr. Adler. Your answer is very helpful#

Mary>> Thank you! It's a great question!...

Lourdes>> Deborah...and then Arlene

Mary>> i#

Deborah>> Did it take very long for....

Deborah>> middle schoolers to open up?#

Mary>> In most classes, they opened up right away!...

Mary>> Teachers were so surprised that when they asked students, what are you wondering?...

Mary>> that they had a lot to say, about literature, science, or anything...

Mary>> Some classes took longer than others...

Mary>> changing the classroom culture can take time...

Mary>> but it has worked to some degree everywhere we have seen it tried.#

Deborah>> There's hope! lol. Thank you.

Mary>> Yes, there's hope!#

Deborah>> #

Lourdes>> Arlene, you'll be our final question for tonight...go ahead when your ready#

Arlene>> The dialogue between Dr.Adler ...

Arlene>> and Deborah answered my question - thank you#

Lourdes>> I want to thank everyone, especially Dr. Adler and Dr. Rougle, for coming tonight...

Lourdes>> for those that came in late, this chat transcript will be posted on our website next week...

Mary>> thank you all for your stimulating questions!...

Mary>> And for allowing us to join in your dialogue!#

Carol>> Thank you so much!

Lourdes>> It was a great pleasure having you both with us.

Regina>> Thank you and good night#

Lourdes>> Your book is outstanding, as well as your research

Eija>> Thank you!

Lourdes>> Thank you all for coming. We will be posting new content chats for spring in the near future...

Sue>> Thank you for you time with us.

Mary>> Should we give our email for any followup questions?

Regina>> Yes, Please

Lourdes>> That would be wonderful. It will be posted with the transcript, as well.

Mary>> mary.adler@csuci.edu is mine

Eija>> eija rougle erougle@uamail.albany.edu

Lourdes>> I'm sure you'll get some questions and comments. It was a very important topic.